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 作者反問 |
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2008/04/13 15:38 |
請教支持中國對西藏鎮壓政策的讀者：
1.青藏鐵路通車後，中共是否有輔導或優惠藏胞特許經營當地觀光業的配套措施？目前是哪些人在經營當地旅遊的相關產業(例如土產店、飯店、觀光巴士等)？
2.青藏鐵路通車後，當地的物價是否因運輸成本減少而下降？或因觀光客湧入，物價反而上漲？
若中國政府確實有提供藏胞上述問題的正面解答，藏胞至少應該在經濟生活獲得改善這方面，感激青藏鐵路的建設。
註：本人未到過西藏，不知當地目前的經濟運轉狀況，若有讀者能提供相關資訊，在此先表示謝意。
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| you totally miss my point |
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2008/04/13 12:53 |
You seem to be ignorant for what I wrote. US and Australia continue suppress minority and minority are rebellious. However, since they are so few in number and no foreign power to support, they can't do anything.
Yes, they can practice their religion now but only after they become this tiny minority. They are powerless because all economy was controlled by US government. Think about this, if American Native now are more than 50% of the population in present US and European always follows the democracy rule. How many countries will there be in present US? Do you think American Natives would want to join the Union? You will think US should enlarge Indian Reservation and provide better infrastructure so they can be viable in living and eventually becomes independent? I am sure Chinese will tolerate Tibetan culture and religion or even admired it if they are no longer a threat to tear the country apart.
I did not say Mainland Chinese can vote. Why do you argue that point? What I want to say is if Chinese want democracy eventually, they better start migrating to Tibet proper. This is not Chinese way of doing thing but the Western democratic way of doing things. I wish Chinese can set an example of preserving Tibetan culture and most of the Tibetan population and also becomes democratic although this is close to impossible.
Just a little tip of democracy for you.
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夏 禾--今夜不談政治(gulu) 於 2008-04-13 14:27 回覆： |
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I agree with some of your points. However, as I know, nowadays Native Americans as well as minorities have equal opportunity in every way of their lives. In addition, the U.S. government even offers some privileges to the minority and Native Americans. For example, in California, only Native Americans are allowed to run a casino, and most federal institutions are required to offer a certain ratio of job positions to the minority.
In mainland China, people even do not have the liberty to move from one place to another. How can they choose to migrate to Tibet even if they wish to do it?
I really admire what Obama said in his recent speech. He said,"I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challeges of our time unless we solve them together-- unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction: toward a better future for our children and our grandchildren."
雖然我同意你的某些觀點，但就我所知，今日的美國土著與少數民族在生活各方面均享有平等的機會，美國政府甚至提供某些優惠給他們。例如，在加州只有印地安土著才有權經營賭場，聯邦政府機構亦必須提供一定比率的就業機會給少數族裔。
在中國大陸，人民連基本的遷徙自由都沒有，你如何叫那些嚮往自由民主的人士遷居到西藏呢?
(另段文字為歐巴馬演講詞，請詳發表文章末段之翻譯)
P.S.我相信你應該會讀、寫中文，因為這是一個中文網站，為了方便全體讀者的閱讀，請諒解今後本部落格將只以中文回覆讀者的回應。
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| 有些瑕疵 |
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2008/04/12 10:28 |
這次的西藏動亂，純粹只是漢藏之間的衝突。且經濟性大於政治性
不只漢人受害，連同為少數民族的回人也難以倖免。
被破壞的都是商店，代表藏人不滿的是漢回族的商人賺太多錢。
藏獨不把漢回商人的人權放在眼裡，卻又要中共用人權的方式對待之
我想這是不太可能的事情。這只會動搖中共底下九成漢人民眾的支持而已。
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夏 禾--今夜不談政治(gulu) 於 2008-04-12 13:51 回覆： |
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1.各種族應不分人數多寡而相互尊重；執政者應具有讓人民信服的作為；讀者應仔細思考分辨不同立場媒體報導的可信度。 2.台灣光復初年，曾歷經228事件的慘痛歷史教訓，因此後來不論是國民黨時代對處理美麗島事件，要求憲兵警察務必「打不還手，罵不還口」，或民進黨政府對紅衫軍包圍總統府的抗爭行動，所採取的容忍態度，均是尊重人民享有自由、民主與人權的證明，也正因為如此，台灣才能贏得世界民主模範的美名。
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| Dalai Lama's biggest nightmare |
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2008/04/12 09:47 |
Just encourage people to migrate. Suppress local when necessary. When native population is 1% or less, no more threat of independence.
Oh, I am talking about proud democratic and free countries of United States and Australia. Surely it can be applied to Si Chuang, no one should object this, right?
Seems lots of people jump out and claim human right moral high ground without knowing the true nature of democracy. At least from history of the West, only dictatorship and authoritarian regime can maintain ethnic co-existence without mixing them. Democracy tends to mix them together (culture genocide, someone said) if they don't want to lose land. Better claim democracy after your people are majority, you know. Like Kosovo, 40% -> 10% Serbian in 10 years. Like Israel, in the next few years, Jewish will be minority if they still hold Gaza and West Bank. How can they claim democracy when some people can vote and some people cannot based on their ethnicity?
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夏 禾--今夜不談政治(gulu) 於 2008-04-12 14:17 回覆： |
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I will try to address most of your points.
"Suppress locals when necessary." You don't need to suppress locals when they are content with their lives. Tibetans are rebelling because they feel oppressed, unable to practice their religion.
I know what you mean about the U.S. and Australia suppressing locals while expanding their country-- that is true. However, it'd be best of all if we can learn from the past and not have to force minorities to migrate. Besides, where do you think they would migrate to? The rest of Chine sure doesn't seem ready to accept them.
At this point, even the majority Chinese can't vote. How can you use voting to distinguish between groups when NO group can vote?
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| 德语媒体 | 2008.04.11 |
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2008/04/12 03:36 |
德语媒体 | 2008.04.11
西藏“四水六岗卫教军”与藏人的和平形象
Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: 生活在尼泊尔的西藏难民
“保护面临生存危险的民族”是德国一个民间组织。昨天，该组织的亚洲部负责人路德维希在科隆城市导报上发表文章说，“和平、忍耐和严格遵守非暴力抵抗原则”是人们对藏人的印象，但这次拉萨动乱“动摇了人们的这一印象”。德国之声记者摘译如下。文章认为，这种传统印象"从来就不符合事实"，因为五十年代时，西藏东部康巴人家族首领和商人贡布扎西就建立了西藏史无前例的"四水六岗卫教军"，并寻求国际援助："在寻找同盟者的过程中，这些藏人转向美国。凡是有利于中国不稳定的事，美国都欢迎。达赖喇嘛的哥哥们说服了美国中央情报局支持西藏开展游击战。1957年，一项秘密计划开始：四月份，首批六名康巴人到西太平洋的塞班岛接受训练。半年后，为美国中央情报局服务的一名波兰飞行员和一名捷克技师用降落伞把他们空投在西藏。为执行这一棘手的使命，他们驾驶一架无标志的B17型轰炸机，万一被击落，美国可以矢口否认与此事有关
"六人中的三人在后来四个月的战斗中阵亡，剩下的三人克服初期困难以后，向中情局提供西藏情报。到六十年代中期，有2500名年轻藏人在塞班岛、关岛和美国科罗拉多州的鲨鱼营地、一万六千名在西藏的邻国接受了军事训练。中情局特务向'四水六岗卫教军'所在地空投了四百吨武器、弹药和技术设备。五十年代末，游击队拥有两万至三万名战士，控制了南部主要地区。" 文章回顾了当年达赖喇嘛在"四水六岗"护送下流亡印度的历史。在中国的强大军事压力下，藏人武装退往尼泊尔：
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夏 禾--今夜不談政治(gulu) 於 2008-04-12 11:59 回覆： |
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請閱拙著【自由的火炬不能熄滅，人權的火種要延續】-- 回覆【奧運聖火精神】的讀者，感謝各位的瀏覽與回應。
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| truth |
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2008/04/12 01:58 |
看了一陣子的西藏事件和奧運聖火新聞,心理實在感到那悶.就近拉薩暴動是怎麼發生的,我們平心而論,先不論藏人獨立應或不英的問題,以一個西方民主國家為標準,其境內發生大規模暴動,稍殺擄掠,[把無辜的女店員活活燒死在店裡]他們政府會怎麼作我想武裝鎮壓是必然的,那為何會有兩套孑然不同的漂準呢,很多國家多存在少數民族的問題,當愛爾蘭共合軍用暴力手段爭取獨立時,英國政府鎮壓手段毫無遜色,當時為何西方國家不對英國侵犯人權大加撻伐呢,美國洛杉磯黑人暴動,白人警察強力鎮壓,西方有啥批評,說侵犯人權,為了一個莫須有的罪名[窩藏恐部分子,及發展合勝化武器]飛機坦克都開到人家家里去,幾乎是滅了別人的國家,多少無辜生命枉死,這就叫做人權嗎西藏獨不獨我沒意見,只是干擾聖火傳替的舉止有點像是看到人家辦喜事,手上拿著一包糞要脅給點好處一樣不那麼光明正大,西方國家這時的義憤填膺多少多有隔岸觀火看好戲的心思.仔細想想奧運搞得越難看,西藏自主[獨立]就越遙遠,有拿一個國家會為一場奧運而放棄國家主權完整?美國不會,法國不會,中國--那更不會的.........
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夏 禾--今夜不談政治(gulu) 於 2008-04-12 13:54 回覆： |
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就以美國對伊拉克的戰爭而言，其國內多數媒體在戰爭剛開始的時候，就馬上不客氣的使用「入侵或侵略(invasion) 伊拉克」這個負面的字彙，報導布希政府的不當行為。當時國際輿論包括美國的長期盟友德、法等國亦反對入侵伊拉克，甚至在入侵前一個月，就有300萬愛好自由和平的人士聚集在羅馬抗議，反戰集會人數之多刷新金氏世界紀錄。洛杉磯黑人暴動事件發生後，也曾引起美國人權團體極度的關注與批評，歐巴馬今日能獲得包括白人在內的多數年輕群眾支持，亦證明了歷史的代價已經發生作用。
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